Date: 4 Apr 2002
Subject: IS JESUS = ZUES ?
I have read much of what you have said on this subject and would like for you to e-mail me back a response to my e-mail. You have stated a strong view on this subject yet I do not see any credentials listed to back up what you have said. Do you have any degree's in the following areas such as Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic language? And if not what is your experience in these areas. For the most part just from your statement, "Our Savior's name was given from heaven some four to eight years B.C.E. It seems obvious that he was given the same name as was born by the great leader of Israel, Joshua he son of Nun. We do not know and cannot know how his name was written or spoken in Hebrew. The name may never have been written in Hebrew at all, but in Aramaic."
In what you stated there proves that you have no clue that what you just stated there is false. There has been found a complete Gospel of Matthew in the caves of Qumran. Which was written in Aramaic to top it off. And we do know how Yeshua name was spelt. Yud Shin Vav Ayin. And if you really want to see how this Jesus name is error go into the Catholic church and look at there original Greek writings they all said Joshua not Jesus. My response to you is this, learn more before you speak on issues. For more information read Geza Vermes "The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English," and Wise Abegg and Cook "The Dead Sea Scrolls." Or also you can go to the Jerusalem University and contact some of the Scholars there and get more information on the findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Date: 5 Apr 2002
Subject: Jesus = Zeus
Please don't ask for my credentials and then hand me bogus sacred name movement propaganda like a Gospel of Matthew written in Aramaic being found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Where did you get such silly information? Do you want to send me your source for this? I know, you read it some where on the internet, but you can't remember just where right now. You will find it for me later.
I have all the DSS books you mentioned and more; but I have read them. You, on the other hand, seem not to have done so.
Anyway, none of them say one word about a "complete gospel of Matthew in the caves at Qumran."
Putting out this kind of fake information is one of the larger problems with the sacred name movement's scholars. Whom I, for this kind of stuff, call pseudo-scholars.
Date: 5 Apr 2002
Subject: Re: Jesus = Zeus
Who's handing you a bogus sacred name movement. I never once said that Jesus means Zeus. You assumed that, and how is beyond me. And before you try to get on a tangent of false accusations you should stop assuming one uses the Internet for a resource. Try a library and other Rabbis and scholars which have credentials in these areas. So if you would like to know where I received this information I will gladly give it to you. And call it what ever you want but my whole point for saying what his name was and how it was said stems from what the Aramaic and Hebrew word for salvation is. Y'shua " G-d is salvation." My whole point for commenting to you was more on the note of your fallacy of stating that there is no way to know how the name was said. And for one who refuses to show ones credentials shows he is just proves hes just another man who likes to talk but has no education in such matters in which he speaks.
Editor's Second Reply
Date: 6 Apr 2002
Subject: Jesus = Zeus
My credentials are more than sufficient to question the false teachings of the sacred name movement about the names they promote. The Holy Writings teach us to test all things, hold fast to the good, and discard what fails the test.
The issue between you and I, based on your first email to me, is regarding whether an Aramaic Gospel of Matthew supposedly found at Qumran gives a spelling of the name of Jesus. I deny that such a document was found at Qumran.
What I am interested in are not your credentials for proffering the sacred name movement LIE that there was an Aramaic Gospel of Matthew found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. I would just like to know WHY you want to involve yourself in promoting such an obviously counterfeit and easily discreditable deception?
You have stated the following. "There has been found a complete Gospel of Matthew in the caves of Qumran. Which was written in Aramaic to top it off." This is a sacred name movement LIE. There was no Gospel of Matthew found at Qumran.
This fake information then becomes the basis for your fake conclusion i.e. "And we do know how Yeshua name was spelt."
Your false premises led you to a false conclusion. You do not have an Aramaic Gospel of Matthew and therefore you do not have source material for how Jesus would have spelled his name in Aramaic.
I asked you for the source of your information to support your belief in this Aramaic Gospel of Matthew supposedly found at Qumran. Did you answer my question? You did not. You evaded the whole issue by pretending I had accused you of saying something about Jesus being Zeus. I said no such thing.
You had at least a couple of choices in answering the question. You could have confessed that the statement was not factually correct. You could have told me the name of the sacred name movement teacher from whom you heard this false information. You could have told me that the document was found but the Roman Catholic Church has hidden it in the Vatican library. Or you could have given me some other made up explanation for why this mythical document does not exist.
To chose to evade the issue is not a choice I will allow you. If you are unwilling to deal with this issue, you should not have brought it up in the first place.
I devoted a number of years to the study of the logical process and it is easy to see that you are not using any logic to analyze what you are saying about what you believe. You have altogether avoided my question regarding the source of your statement.
Adam, let me speak plainly to you. I have been a Bible teacher for over forty years. I have been a pastor for almost thirty years. Over the years, I have had engaged in a number of formal debates, both public and written, with people who teach false doctrines.
One of the first things I teach young men who aspire to debate is to know their resources. Do not state that something is true unless you have the source for this information and are prepared to reveal it.
So, once again, Adam, I ask the question. Give the source for your statement that: "There has been found a complete Gospel of Matthew in the caves of Qumran. Which was written in Aramaic to top it off."
You may not have known the statement was false when you wrote it to me. But now that I have asked for your source for the statement, you owe it to yourself to do research into the matter. When you do, you will see for yourself the statement was not according to the facts and you will write me and thank me for helping you see the truth about this small detail of your beliefs. You see, Adam, the whole of the doctrines regarding the sacred names is based on just such evidence. Therefore, if the converts to these doctrines would admit that these basic details are false, they would turn away from the doctrine.
Date: 7 Apr 2002
Subject: Matthew written in Hebrew
You say there is no such thing as a scroll of Matthew? Yet in reading and researching you will find even History says there was. So start being more slow to speak and spend more time learning on subjects before you say things that will come back and prove you wrong.
"But these sectarians... did not call themselves Christians--but "Nazarenes," ... However they are simply complete Jews. They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do... They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion-- except for their belief in Messiah, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that G-d is one, and that his son is Y'shua the Messiah. They are trained to a nicety in Hebrew. For among them the entire Law, the Prophets, and the... Writings... are read in Hebrew, as they surely are by the Jews. They are different from the Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following. They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Messiah; but since they are still fettered by the Law--circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest-- they are not in accord with Christians.... they are nothing but Jews.... They have the Goodnews according to Matthew in its entirety in Hebrew. For it is clear that they still preserve this, in the Hebrew alphabet, as it was originally written"
(Epiphanius; Panarion 29) ( written in the fourth century)
Editor's Third Reply
Date: 8 Apr 2002
Subject: Matthew written in Hebrew
It would appear that your are discussing your doctrine with someone else beside me. You keep accusing me of saying things that I did not say. For instance, I did not say there was no scroll of Matthew. Here is what I said, "There was no Gospel of Matthew found at Qumran." I stand by this fact.
I deny your statement that, "There has been found a complete Gospel of Matthew in the caves of Qumran. Which was written in Aramaic to top it off. And we do know how Yeshua name was spelt" Your statement is a false statement. You made it and until now you have refused to give your source for this statement.
The information you have sent is not about a scroll of a Gospel of Matthew in Aramaic, but one in Hebrew. Hebrew is not Aramaic.
The information you sent in you email dated April, 7 is not about a scroll found at Qumran among the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is information about a scroll that no one alive today has ever seen. As far as you know, it does not even exist. Therefore, you still do not know how Jesus spelled his name in Hebrew.
By the way, you failed to give source for this last statement also. Would you like to do that for me?
Adam, why not just 'fess up to the truth. No Gospel of Matthew was found at Qumran. Does the doctrine of the sacred name need these little subterfuges to hold it up?